Wednesday, January 23, 2008

Don't bother commenting if you haven't been paying attention!

Betty has left a new comment on your post "Your spouse is fat? Grow up and deal.":

The difference between you and Rick is that you met your husband while you were fat (if that's what I understood). The people on the site haven't. They met their life partners when they were healthy and thin.

This is nothing to do against you, please don't take it personally. But it is totally unfair to demand physical attraction if one doesn't look after himself/herself and this doesn't only manifest on the outside but generally obese people are severely unhappy.

Also remember that it's not just about the looks but obesity is a major risk for health, massive contributor of premature death, and it is devastating to see your life partner making themselves sick.

I guess I would also prefer my husband telling me I was fat and because of it, couldn't find me attractive instead of never telling me and going for an affair.

This is being said by an actual fat person, married, who's walking along the weight loss journey so don't think I am a fat hater.

Where do I begin? At the beginning, I suppose.
The difference between you and Rick is that you met your husband while you were fat (if that's what I understood). The people on the site haven't. They met their life partners when they were healthy and thin.
This implies that a person should have to remain thin throughout a relationship, even if they weren't happy with the lifestyle required to do so. It also equates healthy with being thin, which is, as most of us who have done our homework know, not true. Would a person be excused from looking "unattractive" if their appearance were changed by massive burns or other scars? Of course, the response to this is, "Well, that's not their fault, but fat people CHOOSE to be fat." But that's just not true, because, again, those who aren't looking to hate people for being fat have opened their minds to the fact that diets don't work.

I also want to mention that if a couple gets together when one person in the couple is fat, and that person consequently loses weight and becomes thin, do you think it's fair for the partner to get all pissed off and demand that the partner gain the weight back? After all, they changed their body shape to one that may be less attractive than they were when they met, right? I think I know the answer, and that just tells me this is about hating FAT/FAT IS BAD/etc.

But it is totally unfair to demand physical attraction if one doesn't look after himself/herself
Gaining weight is not the result of someone not "looking after him/herself". This statement IS offensive, as it places blame on the person who has gained weight for their weight gain. It's one thing if your spouse has stopped showering. It's quite another when their body itself changes--this is NOT something that is within conscious control.

Not only that, but the idea of "demanding" physical attraction? How about just wanting your partner to love you for who you are, and if they are not able to do that, they be honest about it and admit that they have a problem being attracted to a person who is fat. But no, because nobody wants to be the "bad guy", the fat spouse is blamed for being fat, and it is "demanded" that they change their shape back into the preferred one. No thanks. I'd rather get divorced and find someone who is attracted to ME, regardless of my weight, and let the other person go to find that hardbody that will never ever change. Good luck with that, by the way.

this doesn't only manifest on the outside but generally obese people are severely unhappy.
Have you ever thought that maybe they wouldn't be as unhappy if people didn't treat them like complete garbage? Or if doctors didn't cause them irreparable damage and death because they couldn't see past the adipose tissue? And did you maybe think that there are plenty of "obese" people out there who aren't unhappy, IN SPITE OF the shitty treatment they get?

Also remember that it's not just about the looks but obesity is a major risk for health, massive contributor of premature death,
Why would someone even come here to make comments if they are going to ignore everything else in this blog? From now on, I am not going to dignify ignorance with a response, but this one time, I will point you to a few little places where you can learn that this is just untrue. If people can't be bothered to read and learn, they can, from here on out, suck it.

and it is devastating to see your life partner making themselves sick.
Perhaps, but it's based on false assumptions (see above), and placing blame where it does not belong for something that is not as bad as you are making it out to be. This isn't about seeing your life partner making themselves sick; that is just the red herring people throw out so that they don't have to admit that they care more about their partner's looks than about the person him/herself. If your partner were doing heroin or drinking a fifth of whiskey a day, you might have a case. But you don't.

I guess I would also prefer my husband telling me I was fat and because of it, couldn't find me attractive instead of never telling me and going for an affair.
The problem with that statement is that those are not the only two options. If my husband decided that I wasn't physically attractive anymore, to the degree that he wanted to have an affair, then I'd rather we just break up. Fortunately for me, Brian's not an ass like that. It's also interesting that so many people think men are mindless sex machines that NEED to have access to sexual partners that have perfect bodies, or they will implode. Sorry, but if my two choices were the ones you listed? Then there's a whole lot more wrong with my relationship than my being fat.

This is being said by an actual fat person, married, who's walking along the weight loss journey so don't think I am a fat hater.
Well, of course you are a fat hater. You hate it enough that you are trying to get rid of the fat that you have--because you're terrified that your spouse will go out and fuck someone else if you don't. It's really sad to see someone hate a part of themselves when they don't need to, but I suppose that's the result of absorbing all of the fat hatred in your environment. I have to say, though, that your fat is not the problem in your marriage, if your husband threatens to sleep around if you don't lose weight to please him. I'm really sorry for that, because even if you do lose enough weight to keep him from straying, you'll put it all back plus ten percent or more in about five years. What are you going to do then? Unless, that is, you don't cringe at the thought of being hungry every single day for the rest of your life. For me, that's just not acceptable; no guy is worth that.

As I've said before; most of these situations, once the surface is scratched, reveal that fat is the least of a couple's problems--it becomes a way to keep them from focusing on what's really going on. It's too hard to admit that a husband screaming at you, threatening you, and punching walls is abusive, so let's focus on how fat he is instead. You don't want to tell people that your husband's a philandering asshole, so blame yourself for "letting yourself go", and hold out hope that if you do manage to make a diet work, and stay thin afterwards, he'll stop screwing around. Some relationships aren't work saving, though, and badgering the fat half of the partnership to lose weight in order to "save" it just prolongs what really needs to happen. Enough already--there are plenty of partners out there who don't find fat unattractive; why waste your time on someone who hates you for it?


Betty said...

Listen, first of all, don't assume that there are problems in our marriage. I am losing weight because I wanted to not because my husband threatened to cheat on me if I didn't, in fact, he's never said anything about it. This was MY initiative. Even if a partner says something it should be taken as a sign of caring for you, a concern they have, not as if they're "assholes". I wouldn't be selfish enough to ignore this and overeat myself and abuse our marriage.

And second, you must live on some kind of surreal world if you think that being obese that does not affect your health. I will not go to websites you posted because both my parents are doctors and I know the books very well. High blood pressure and cholesterol are due most of the time because of obesity and bad diet. And this is a massive risk to your heart. Not to mention that 50% of obese people develop type II diabetes.

Obestiy is 90% of the time caused by overeating, eating more calories that your body needs.
There is absoloutely no excuse. Most medical conditions are treatable and there are low impact types of excercise designed for heavier people. When you say that this is not caused by you, then who is it caused by? Nobody forces you to overeat, that is an indidivual decision a person makes.

Go and have a full medical check-up to convince yourself you're not hurting your body by being obese. Your joints are suffering. Your liver is suffering. That's reality, sorry to have to open your eyes like this.

If you can honestly say that when you look at yourself in the mirror you love all those fat rolls then good for you but I certainly am not one of those like 85% of obese women aren't. I don't hate myself because I'm fat but I care enough to do something about it.

Diets don't work, of course they don't. Everyone knows that. It is a lifestyle change that is a true success not a quick diet when you lose 20 lbs in a month and put it all back on in 15 days. It doesn't work that way.

I can honestly say that by eating 2000 calories a day I don't feel like I'm starving either! Putting the weight back on, it's up to you. If you want to keep the weight off then you need to maintain healthy lifestyle habits, otherwise the weight will come back on.

Maria said...

oh man, I think we got quite a few bingos here.

Rachel said...

Diets don't work and neither do "lilfestyle changes" that are really code for diets.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect your spouse to remain healthy; it is unreasonable to expect them to remain or become thin. Regardless of what you say Betty (and I have yet to see cite any incontrovertible proof), one's health and one's weight can be mutually exclusive.

April said...

I will not go to websites you posted because both my parents are doctors and I know the books very well.

Wow. I have to say this is my favorite of all the phrases in this hateful rant. I mean really, how DARE you try to give scientific proof for your statements RioIriri! You're obviously a Big Fat Liar because you dared to support your arguments not with emotional snap-reactions and stuff you just "know to be true from life" but with actual studies and research.

Bad fatty. No baby-flavored donut for you! ;)

For Betty though I have to respond to "Nobody forces you to overeat, that is an indidivual decision a person makes."

If you were to spend even 20 minutes, hell even 5 minutes, reading about Health At Every Size (the point of most fat-acceptance blogs) you would very very quickly realize that one of the BIGGEST points of what folks are here to discuss is the blatant hatred forced upon us fatties for the ASSUMPTION that we are fat because of poor diet and lack of exercise!

Putting aside for the moment the fact that just as it is NONE of anyone's business what goes into a fat person's body (anymore than it is anyone's business what goes into a thin person's mouth); just where are you pulling your statistics? 90% of obesity is caused by overeating?? Since you likely wouldn't click this link; how about this:

"Perhaps the most significant study to come out this month was the one that got the very least media attention. The results of the DONALD Study (Dortmund Nutritional Anthropometric Longitudinally Designed Study) were released from the Research Institute of Child Nutrition, Dortmund, Germany. This was a small cohort study on 228 nondieting children. The researchers themselves actually weighed the individual children and recorded their diets (the foods, amounts and eating occasions) at least ten times a year and followed them thusly for 17 years. They found that no identifiable dietary patterns during childhood or adolescence could explain their BMIs. While there were great differences in the children's diets, these differences were not related to their weights."

Here is another good read The Fantasy of Being Thin

Sadly, I doubt this reply will do anything more than result in another 'nut-uh!' type response since Betty has already admitted to having no desire to read evidence that might possibly support thoughts contrary to her own firmly established beliefs but perhaps others who stop by will read this (as I started with Shapely Prose and got here) and just start to think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, there is something to this fuss all the fatties are making.

Nettle said...

Betty, if you feel like you're eating unhealthy food or too much or whatever, it's no one's business but yours if you decide to change that. Go for it. Don't be too surprised if this doesn't lead to any significant long-term change in body type, but there's nothing to be lost by changing your own bad habits. I used to have high cholesterol (runs in the family) and I lowered it through dietary changes. It worked great.

I'm still fat.

I walk 3-4 miles to work every day. I love the exercise, it makes me feel great and I like to move. I also do yoga and pilates regularly. I have abs of total steel. Way down under the fat, anyway. Yep, still fat.

I see a doctor once or twice a year for a regular checkup. That's how we caught the high cholesterol thing. With that taken care of, I have no health problems. Blood pressure is fine, no sign of diabetes. And yet, here I am, still fat.

I'm married to a terrific guy who loves me just as I am. I think he would be amazed at any implication that I am "abusing my marriage" with my shape. Even though I wasn't shaped like this when we got married - because he's a sane human being who understands that people change.

If I was exercising and eating well because I wanted to lose weight, you know what I would do? I would stop. Because it doesn't work. Not for me. I exercise and eat well because I like being healthy. I like how it feels.

So really, if I actually listened to people like you, Betty, who would tell me that no matter how well I treat myself it's obviously not good enough because I'm still fat - that I can't be healthy or happy with who I am and that I am only allowed self-esteem if I obsess over my weight - then I would be LESS healthy. Physically and mentally.

So, anyway, good luck with the diet, Betty. Hope it makes your husband feel less abused.

Rebecca said...

Obviously Betty you're not actually interested in discussion, since you won't even read the material Rio provided you with, but I thought I'd ask, do you have any sources for:
-50% of obese people develop type II diabetes.
-Obestiy is 90% of the time caused by overeating
If you're going to cite numbers, you really should have some backup.

Also, I did meet my now-fiance when I was thin (although not healthy - I was well below my body's natural weight due to stress, and that was definately not healthy for me.) Now I'm fat, and you know what? He still wants to marry me (he proposed after I started getting fat again). Because he loves me, not just my body. And he's not concerned about my health, because I eat better and excercise more than him or many of the thinner people he knows.

As for this: Even if a partner says something it should be taken as a sign of caring for you, a concern they have, not as if they're "assholes"
Well, it depends. If my fiance said he was concerned about the effect my weight might be having on my health, and I thought he was sincere, I would take it as a sign of caring, but would explain to him why weightloss doesn't work for me, and why I don't believe fat is unhealthy in and of itself. But if he told me: "I'm not attracted to you anymore because of your weight" then hell yes I would think he was being an asshole.

Betty said...

Hi April,

Since you made a very good point of me not referring to these websites, I have actually had a look on one of them.

I am qualified to examine quantitave data (which is what this study is based on)and I just want to make a few points:

228 children were studied over a period of 17 years being observed and monitored 10 times a year.
Now, first of all, what does 228 equal to in percentages of the total infatile population? second, 10 times a year is less than one day a month, which is not enough to predict a diet or metabolism pattern.

The study mentions that the children didn't eat a signifcant amount more of sweets and "bad foods".

Being overweight is not just about eating the wrong things but also eating bigger portions. They could have been eating relatively healthy but still eating large potions of food which adds calories. For example, 100g of nuts equals to about 550-600 calories and has a small amount of saturated fats, while being nutritive in the good fats.

The study concluded that some people are genetically programmed to become obese. Well, I am sorry to disagree but this study is lacking of qualitative evidence basing its conclusions solely on quantitative evidence which is known to at times, be misleading.

Again, my opinion is that, no matter how much genetics you have on your body to become obese it is possible to fight this terrible disease, I am a great example of it.

While I became obese because of not monitoring the food and the amounts I ate, I have a tendency to become overweight too, as my parents are not naturally thin but work extremely hard to stay in shape.

I also have a tendency to develop early type II diabetes as both my grandmothers had it, I was a premature baby, add that to sedentarism, obesity and smoking.

I am actually pre-diabetic at the moment and am on time to prevent this by losing weight, good diet, and excercise (which is what I have been doing for the last month and a half. I can already report a weight loss of 20 lbs so far - another 70 more to reach my goal weight).

Betty said...

Well, the source of my statistics:

90% of obese people become obese due to overeating and lack of excercise (GP - UK).

85% of obese women are unhappy about the way they look (TV Documentary called Superskinny vs Supersized).

50% of obese people develop type II diabetics (Endocrinologist).

I am sure that you must know that individuals are naturally physically attracted to the person they're with (in most cases anyway). If you put on 100 lbs and your partner doesn't find you sexually attractive, well, I certainly can't blame them for it.

My motivation to lose weight was due to the impact it was having on my health, not because my husband wouldn't find me attractive. I have never known this to be the case though I'm sure he'll be very pleased if I lost another 70 lbs.

Even if he did say or I would tell he didn't find me attractive I would do something about it and wouldn't consider him an asshole. I want him to be attracted to me, in every single way.

Kelly said...

Just a note, Betty. By stating that:

I also have a tendency to develop early type II diabetes as both my grandmothers had it, I was a premature baby, add that to sedentarism, obesity and smoking.

I am actually pre-diabetic at the moment and am on time to prevent this by losing weight, good diet, and excercise.

You're confirming a lot of what the commenters are saying:

(1) your tendency toward being fat is genetic
(2) your tendency toward being a diabetic is genetic

Wanting to be healthier is not a bad thing. Eating well and exercising are always good for you. The point that this site, and others like it, are trying to make is that doing these things may help you FEEL better, but they won't always result in the magical big number weight loss. The point you have to reach is where you feel strong, you feel confident, your health is good, and where you realize that these FEELINGS may not be tied to a number on the scale.

Fate said...

OK, this boils down to respect.

I will put the article at the end of the post since it's long and the link is dead so I have to post the whole thing... but there are cultures out there who find fat sexy with women and who consequently FORCE FEED their daughters... men who divorce their wives if they lose weight, even for health reasons. There's one of these cultures I read of in Africa and one in the Middle East. Either way... forcing your children/lover/spouce/sibling/friend to keep your affection because of the way they look is horrible.

If health were the first thing on peoples minds with the anti-fat movement then it wouldn't be about dieting, it would be about changing lifestyle and finding out WHY the body has put on extra pounds. Mine was malnutrition due to disease that, because it often exhibits through weight loss rather than gain, no one even thought of even though weight gain is a relatively common factor.

Hell, you eat healthier than ANYONE I've ever met. Moderate fat, moderate carbs, good whole foods, grains, protiens, everything from scratch and not in excess. You're fat. You're sexy, you're beautiful and if you found out what is making you ill and were able to correct it, then your body would likely regulate itself. We're punishing people for not being our ideal and that is disrespectful.

Badgering your spouce or child for not being your ideal is disrespectful. Having to worry about being left because you've gained weight... again, shows a culture and an air of disrespect.

On top of that, we're punishing people for being ill, and that is wrong. We're also refusing to believe that one can be fat and not be unhealthy. I am 70 pounds overweight. My cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, blood sugars, etc are PERFECT for a woman my age. My bone mass is excellent because I carry around the extra weight and thus do weight bearing exercise all the time... so even with a relatively severe vitamin D deficinecy I have wonderful bones. I am now losing size/weight having corrected my malnutrition, but I also keep a regular Friday night date with my deep fryer, thankyouverymuch.

Everyone is so defensive... so your spouse is killing themselves with their weight. Maybe they're diabetic and have other co-morbities from it all, like my mother... like I was headed towards... ok, so we need to find out what is wrong and fix it... because, especially if they weren't fat before, the fat is a symptom not the actual cause, and being the food police isn't going to help. At all. My mother and I, it turns out, have celiac disease. Getting that and the resulting malnutrition under control has *surprise* brought down her diabetic blood sugars to where she eventually won't need insuin any longer (they keep lowering her dosages and soon it will be gone, we think.) Her other health problems will dissipate as well when the weight goes (and it slowly is) because they ARE from being fat, but getting fat was from being ILL, not lack of will power. It took looking beyond the physical to the physiological to find that and NO DOCTOR BOTHERED to do so. On top of that, my father who HATES fat... who would NOT take me camping or teach me to use power tools because I was fat... who TORMENTS my mother for her weight... he WILL NOT SUPPORT HER DIETARY CHANGES so that she can lose weight and get healthy! Why? Because he's disrespectful and has allowed his phobia of fat to dehumanize her in his mind. She's an object and no longer pleases him so he's angry he can't just dispose of her. Fuck that, and fuck anyone else who feels that way.

If we respect ourselves, respect our family and respect the strangers in our lives we will do much better. We are apalled at reading about the mothers who force-feed their daughters to make them attractive yet applaud mothers who put their 8 year old daughters on calorie restrictive diets for being chubby with no other health factors contributing. Tell me why there's any difference with this, will you? I can tell you definitively that eating boiled chicken I carefully weighed out with steamed green beans and raw carrots and one slice of bread for dinner while my family and siblings had pizza not only did not help my celiac disease or any other health problems which contributed to my weight gain, but certainly DID contribute to my fear of eating in public and my binging as an adult.

OK, that said, here's the article:
Force-fed women fight the fat
NOUAKCHOTT (Reuters) - Mariem Sow was a little girl when her sister Zeinabou choked to death in front of her while being force-fed camel's milk by a family slave.

Beaten if she refused to swallow the rich diet of sweetened milk and millet porridge, Zeinabou was one of many Mauritanian girls fattened up because of an ancient belief that corpulent women make more desirable wives.

"As soon as my older sister was 12 they started force-feeding her so she would be plump by 15. They wanted to prepare her for marriage," said Mariem, now 42, wrapped in white robes and reclining on cushions in her Nouakchott home.

The traditions of the desert are very much alive in Mauritania, an Islamic republic on the western edge of the Sahara whose people were still almost entirely nomadic when the country gained independence from France in 1960.

Wealthier families who have settled in the capital Nouakchott often keep a "khaima" -- a nomadic tent -- in the courtyard of their homes. Men and women walk the sandswept streets in flowing robes and headscarves.

Having a voluptuous wife and daughters -- well fed to survive the rigors of a desert lifestyle -- was long a visible sign of wealth and power among the country's light-skinned Moors. It is still seen by many as a canon of beauty.

But with Lebanese satellite television broadcasting images of flat-stomached girls cavorting on beaches, and more Mauritanians traveling abroad, the vogue is starting to change.

Many Mauritanians believe it is unseemly for women to be seen engaging in any strenuous activity, but as dusk falls, chubby ladies shuffle self-consciously around the stadium in Nouakchott, their tracksuit trousers hidden under flowing "malhafa" robes.

"Sometimes I walk, sometimes I run. We come after dusk when the men have gone home," said Fatimatou, a breathless 31-year old, force-fed as a child but now trying to get down to 60 kg (132 lb).

"It's no longer the modern fashion to be overweight. Women have evolved. Now they work in offices and they have to be fit."


More than one in five women in Mauritania, which straddles black and Arab Africa, were force-fed as young girls, according to a government survey from 2001, the latest available.

"Our society has this vision that a woman has to be fat to be beautiful. It is a canon of beauty," said Marienne Baba Sy, head of a government commission that deals with women's issues.

"If you're a thin woman, people assume your family don't look after you," she told Reuters.

The force-feeding technique known as "gavage" -- a French word more closely associated with fattening up geese to produce foie gras -- is less widely practised than it used to be after the government launched campaigns to highlight the health risks.

But the cult of fatness has deep roots.

"My husband says he wants me to lose weight but he looks at fat women and I think he prefers going to bed with them," said Nene Drame, 47, a writer working on a novel about force-feeding.

"The Mauritanian man is savage by nature. He likes something he can get his hands on," she said.

"Gavage" left some women struggling to walk, not just because of their weight -- which often tops 90 kg (198 lb) -- but because they were tortured as they were force-fed.

Some had their fingers or toes broken so the pain would distract them from having to swallow the milk and porridge. Others had their feet crushed by a "zayar" -- a wooden vice which would only be loosened once they ate.

"Above all it causes cardiac problems, problems during childbirth. Even from the point of view of work, obese women are less productive," said Baba Sy.

"They get tired very quickly, out of breath. Psychologically it is very damaging. You can't do the same things as other women -- you can't even pray properly," she added.

Some children were tied down while being fed and were forced to eat whatever they vomited up during the ordeal, Baba Sy said. The force-feeding often lasted years.


The 2001 survey estimated around 10 percent of women aged 15-19 were force-fed as young girls, down from 35 percent among 45-54 year-olds.

Although brutal "gavage" may be on the decline, the pressure to conform to traditional notions of beauty has given rise to a new phenomenon in which girls take pills to stimulate their appetite or animal steroids to boost their girth.

Packets of large pink pills made in Pakistan and marked "not for human consumption" are laid out on upturned boxes under trees on the edge of one of Nouakchott's main markets.

"Normally they're just for animals but we sell them to women too. We sell them for 50 ouguiya (20 U.S. cents) to people who buy for their animals," said one seller, declining to be named.

"But for women we sell them for 200 ouguiya a tablet. They buy three or four at a time," he said, just before a young teenage couple walked up to make a purchase.

Shocked by the death of her sister, Mariem Sow has stayed slim and was even asked to apply for a modeling contract when she went to Paris after marrying a French man.

"I'd been told I didn't fit the criteria of a Mauritanian, I was too thin, there were no gaps between my teeth. They told me it was a good job I had found a European husband," she laughed.

"But my friends still tell me I need to eat."

(linke dead, but here it is for record.)

Heather said...

Wow. Betty sounds like a classic case of denial. The problem with studies that "show" that being fat is bad for you, is that if you scratch beneath the surface you'll often find that the data shows something completely different from what the "scientists" have declared the studies to show. In "The Obesity Myth", a professor says that he has his students look at the methodology and the tests, but not the conclusion or the abstract. The students study the actual data, and often come up with completely different "results" from other researchers.

For example, I had a liver problem which my doctor told me to "just lose weight" for. I looked at a study that supposedly supported "just losing weight" and about half of the people reported improvement, meaning, half of people lost weight, or tried to, and weren't any healthier for their troubles.

I personally look a lot like my male DNA donor. My husband loves me, flabby tummy and all, because he loves me for me. This seems like a difficult concept for today's shallow society to comprehend, but I'm comfortable in my knowledge that he still finds me sexy and will for the rest of our lives. It really helps avoid any paranoia on our parts of being replaced by someone prettier. :)

Mercurior said...

oh betty oh betty, your parents maybe doctors, but that doesnt mean they arent dumb or misleading their patients, i wonder how many people they tell are fat and prescibe MLS, or diet pills or.. many other things that doctors get money for.

so you mention you got the information from a GP uk. where did he get that info. what studies, and a tv documentary, come on, its about the anti fat brigade and you beleive them.

i went to the doctor with a THROAT infection, it was spreading to my lungs, she took my bp on 3 machines because she thought they were wrong, my cholesterol is normal, my bp at rest is 72 beats a min, my bp at high exercise is 120 (all within NORMAL) ranges.

my lower body strength is over 800lbs, my upper body over 600lbs could be more but the machine broke.

my partner is big, i am bigger, i love every inch of her.

betty your parents know it so you dont need to read about it. 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

studies show that bees cant fly.. so.. will you kill all bees because studies say.

my wife used to be thin, and constant dieting, over and over destroyed her metabolism, changed it. she was depressed until i showed her she was beautiful, and she has become happier, more content and healthier, by being happy. betty ask your parents about being miserable and its effects on health compared to happiness.

(sorry for my grammar but i type as i speak)

Mercurior said...

ok betty

What Dr Campbell rarely mentions, however, is that his National Obesity Forum includes a number of pharmaceutical companies in its list of sponsors who manufacture the drugs that he suggests can play a significant role in stemming the obesity 'epidemic'. Dr Campbell has also been listed on a help line advertised in Roche's 'Obesity Awareness Campaign' materials — a poster campaign criticised by GPs as being a thinly disguised marketing exercise for Xenical

so are you saying doctors never have an ulterior motive for dispensing pills, i know in the USA they love the pills

mumboj said...

The figure, at least in UK is 1 in 20 or 5% of people defined as obese-BMI 30+, are diabetic. As for the term 'overeating' it has little real meaning. People become fat becuse their body is primed to convert energy into fat stores, regardless of how much or little people are eating, no-body knows why this is, certainly not doctors.

Nobody is going to find out through false conceptualizations and lies.

What is required, once and for all is free intellectual/scientific inquiry without fear or favour, that does not include cult like crusades against marketing gimmick 'diseases'.

Rebecca said...

Well, Betty, the data doesn't support your 50%. 6.9% of the American population has diabetes, and 55% of people with diabetes are obese, which means ~3.6% of the population are obese and have diabetes. 30% of the population is obese - which means only ~10% of obese people have diabetes - nowhere near 50%. As for the 90%, body weight and BMI has an 80% heritability based on twin and adoption studies, which is the same as that for height. So I very much doubt that number too. Just because a single doctor tells you something doesn't mean it's true. Doctors don't know everything and have prejudices of their own.

Maybe I shouldn't have said somebody who says they no longer find their fat partner attractive is an asshole - it would depend how they brought it up. But I would call them shallow. I wouldn't stop being attracted to my partner if his weight changed because it's not just his body that makes him attractive to me. It's his eyes and lips and hair, and the way he looks at me, and the way he touches me, and his amazing skill and endurance in the bedroom, and it's the wonderful way he treats me, and the way he makes me laugh, and his incredible intelligence. (Smart is very, very sexy in my book). So anyone who could just stop being attracted to their partner because the shape and size of their body changed is either shallow and didn't appreciate their partner on every level, or is so brainwashed by society's contention that fat = lazy, ugly, unhealthy, gross that they couldn't see past it.

Andee said...

I love how Betty is so sure that a) she will get and stay thin forever on 2000 calories a day, and that b) most of us have never even considered "cutting back" to that level of intake and that's why we're so huuuuuge.

If you can lose weight to the "normal" range and remain there for good eating that way, you are far more genetically fortunate than most of us are. Betty, check out The Rotund's site sometime. She is 315 pounds and eats far less than you do on a daily basis even in your dieting state, and has not lost an ounce from it.

As for me, I gained 65 to 70 pounds over 15 years on antidepressant medication, despite eating less and exercising more. (I'm pretty sure I don't often go over 2000 calories myself, not because I'm restraining myself, but because I have less of an appetite now than I once did.) Would I be a better partner if I was thinner but had untreated major depression? I don't think so. Does treating my depression constitute "letting myself go"? I mean, the very idea. I was a nightmare to live with then despite being close to a "normal" weight. I am much less of one now, fat ass and all.

And yes, since discontinuing the medication and substituting an amino acid regime some of the weight has come off. I might lose more still. I might not. My boyfriend loves me and thinks I'm beautiful either way. He cares enough about me that he does not want me to have to starve in order to fit some arbitrary "body ideal."

No, I don't expect every man to find me a turn-on. Hell, I don't even want that. I just want someone who does find me a turn-on not to be treated like a circus freak because of it. And yeah, if the only reason you don't find me a turn-on is because you are making assumptions about me that simply are not true, then there's something very wrong with that.

Andee (Meowser)

annaham said...

Maybe it's because I have a severely sore throat and haven't had the best week, but seriously, Betty?

LAY OFF. The way that someone else chooses to live their life is none of your business, quite frankly. Do you really think that your citing of statistics and SHAMING of people who don't live just like you is going to make a difference? And even if it does "make a difference," whatever that means, what's the point? Maybe it'll give you a slight feeling of superiority or something, but what ultimate good does it do to go onto people's blogs and try to make them feel bad?

I myself am not overweight or obese. However, it pains me on a very fundamental level to see know-it-alls like yourself spouting health "information" wrapped in language that is intended to hurt, shame and "other" people who, for whatever reason, don't live just like you. I have been the target of this sort of thing due to my myriad health problems. I have also done similar things in the past, and I can say that I am ashamed of it. But hell, live and let live is not a bad thing to start with, even now. You might even learn something.

Betty said...

I'll agree that it is none of our business what you guys choose to feed yourselves with.
But it does become a society's problem when you can't fit on an airplane seat, train seats, etc and cost the government a lot of money on health problems, which is funded by tax-payers.
Listen, I also thought that I wasn't harming myself by being obese until I was proven WRONG when I had a full medical check-up.
I don't have anything agaisnt fat people, hell I'm fat myself but at least am trying NOT TO BE ANYMORE!
It worries me that this forum is sending the wrong message to people out there. It is not OK to be obese. Sorry it ISNT!!

mumboj said...

Since when do fat people not pay taxes? We pay our taxes, if we do not receive what we are entitled to that is called theft OK. And whilst we are at it, why don't you ask us whether we want to pay for slim people that get ill? My answer is yes, yes to the chorinically ill, yes to the elderly, yes to the prem babies, all these cost a lot, I'm happy to pay and grateful to be healthy.

Fate said...


No one said that if being fat has effected your health you shouldn't be trying to get healthy... but about costing the taxpayers? I am 256 pounds and have not gone to the Dr for nearly a year... I will go on the 31st only for a thyroid medication check... since my husband and I both work we have insurance and that will cover every cent we don't pay out of pocket.

If people are on diability it's not for being fat, though the cause of the disability might have made them fat or there might be an underlying condition contributing to the fat which has made their bodies shut down.

Airlines are going to cost us more for our wieght, and frankly it's as hard for anyone over 5foot10 to ride a plane as for a fat five foot5 person. My brother and I are the same hight (six feet tall) and we rode a plane together two years ago. He was 160 pounds I was 335 pounds. I had a seatbelt extender and still fit in my seat and we both had trouble with no leg or elbow room.

We stop riding in amusement parks. OOOOh, big strain on the thin. We may even stop going to movies... oooh, big strain on society.

You can be fat and healthy. You can be fat and LIVING healthy and not losing because of pysical issues. Hell, you can be fat and trying to get thing (even succeeding in lifestyle changes and slow weight loss) and feel sexy and beautiful because you ARE... not because you're losing or trying to lose weight.

At 300 lbs my drs declared me in perfect health (regardless of how they tried to find problems beyond those genetic and NOT weight induced) and said that likely at that size and activity level and dietary habits I'd never get diabetes, high blood pressure or high choloesterol. Now, my body is naturally shedding weigth (very slowly, VERY slowly because I'm not dieting per sey) but I am no longer worried about it. A stranger will see a fat chick and maybe even ill health which doesn't exist, but that's no reason to judge or jump to conclusions.

I don't mind being fat. I will continue towards health and where my body takes me weight wise during that journey is fine with me. I will continue NOT doing things like smoking, eating poisonous chemicals such as artificial flavors/colors or preservatives or MSG in my body. I will continue enjoying clothing, food, movies and sex even if doing so as a fattie offends the sensebility of those around me and I will live a long, healthy, productive life.

BTW... my father has ranted for the last 20 years that he's going to have to work forever because my mom is fat and now ill (diabetes and other fat co-morbidities)... forever he'll have to work while he 'wipes her ass' he says.

My parents are 63. My father is on disabilty for knee issues and my mother? Works full time to support them and carry his health insurance as well as hers... fat, sick and all. Who's a 'drain' now? She won't retire until at least 67 and then will take simply what all 67 year olds in the US are entitled to... where my dad is on SSDI.

Don't be so blind that you allow yourself to hold onto just one side of an issue. There are many sides and many shades of gray in between. Thin can be unhealthy, fat can be healthy, and eveyone I know WANTS to be healthy and is doing their damndest to find what is right for their own bodies. Period.

(BTW, my mother-in-law, mother, grandmother, aunt, brother-in-law and sister-in-law are nurses. My daughter's grandmother is an MD of phsical and rehabilitative medicine as well as neurology and has an MBA focusing in disability studies... I read medical journals and professional magazines/literature all the time as a result and engage in very frank, informed discussions. I work with an integrative nutritionist (co-worker) and am about to begin the studies myself... I try to stay ybalanced with this and hope you will find balance beyond the defensiveness as well. I've never seen Rio or anyone else say "Hey, get fat, it's fun!" rather they are trying to find health for their bodies at the size they're currently at... worried more about the body as a whole than the social position on appearance and acceptability. I applaud them for that!

Betty said...

Well... you might have a point there fate.

But if I knew I couldn't lose weight by eating less and moving more then I'd try and do something else about it (surgery, medication, etc) because I know it's bad for my body and I wouldn't sit around trying to just accept it.

Just like smoking is bad. Society doesn't accommodate smokers, in fact, in the UK smoking has been banned in all public places and cigarettes are pathetically expensive (more than £5 for a pack of 20).

This forum very wrongly claims that most people can't lose weight by exercising and eating healthy when it is actually the minority.

The blogger also had the nerve to negatively criticize a forum where genuinely caring husbands/wives go to support each other in order to get their partners back and called them "whiny babies" "assholes" etc. And then she demands respect and acceptance? Does that sound fair to you?

Fate said...


I haven't looked at that other forum, but the very idea of it bothers me.

And... well... most people who are very overweight (50 or more lbs) have a medical condition of some sort (thyroid, hormonal, metabolic, nutritional, allergy, lymphatic etc) that far too often goes undiagnosed becaouse Drs don't see past the fat. The accepted diabetic diet, until recently, made people with diabetes fatter and sicker with high carbs and low protien and no fats at all. Then they were blamed and told they were lying in their food journals when they gained weight.

Really, Rio is trying to get people and society to accept fat as not horrible and then, if there are co-morbidities (some people are more disposed to diabetes etc) we can work on THOSE and a healthy lifestyle not fad diets (dieting is different from a lifestyle change) and not focusing on the weight on the scale rather than overall health.

Dieting and excersise in the long run don't work if the underlying issues aren't (or can't be) properly and fully addressed. Why do we punish people for that?

In the US people can't smoke in public places either but should fat people not be allowed to eat a donut in public places? Smokers are a threat to the health of others, my bad eating habits are not.

We'll pay for a smoker to be on disability for emphasema and for medical care for cancers but bitch and moan to help a fat person find a way NOT to be fat. The state will pay for quit smoking programs here but not for nutritionists to help us be healthy. My insurance which I pay OUT THE ASS FOR approved me for gastric bypass (which I luckily was able to avoid) but not a nutritionist because I was HEALTHY but FAT... and fat was more important than long-term health.

So... I know this is rambling... but it's so much more complicated and Rio along with so many other communities and bloggers is responding to this hatred and socially accpetable bigotry towards people who are fat (working to get thin or not) so of course she's defensive... if you were an outcast merely for your hight or color or gender or religion you'd be furious... but an outcast for your weight? Well, you will just meekly work on 'fixing' that, right?

Thanks for being open, though, Betty... and the dialogue that has gone on here has been interesting indeed!

RioIriri said...

As with other people from that "caring" forum, I will no longer be accepting comments from you. Further comments will be deleted.

I wouldn't have even HEARD about that place if they hadn't linked to my blog and started with the namecalling. I give as good as I get, and I really don't appreciate being called a "fat gob". Tit for tat is only fair, imo. If you don't want your precious little forum insulted, then the users there would be wise to not throw the first stone.

RioIriri said...

I also want to add to my comment to Betty:
I have not even named the aforementioned forum or linked to it in any way, merely described it--which means that, if its users are taking offense to what I write about them, it is because they linked to me in the first place, and have been coming in here and trolling. I have NOT gone over there and trolled like you and your friend Rick did here, so you can stop acting like you've been horribly wronged here.

annaham said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
annaham said...

I deleted my last comment because, in a moment of weakness, I called the newest concern troll a rather immature name. Bad annaham. Bad form. Out of line.

Anyway, Betty: For your information, I pay taxes, and can also fit on many different types of seats. Also, since we don't yet have universal healthcare in the United States, I fail to see how your argument about taxpayers picking up the slack holds ANY water whatsoever. Hey, taxpayers pay for roads, cops, and schools, so let's make sure that people with different body types don't use those, either! I know it's a shock to you that people with different body types exist, but they do.

Anonymous said...

Do you know what is extremely annoying? The same anti-fat comments being shelled out at every single fat acceptance blog I visit.

It it AMAZING how threatened people feel about our existence. You would think we are a plague or something.